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Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.14 12:52:00 - [1] Edited by: Transport Sheep on 14/02/2011 12:52:33 In regards to the auditing fund mark II I would like to offer my services as an auditor. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1465823 My motivation for wanting to do audits: My time in eve is limited due to being a married man with 2 kids. The arrival of my second kid reduced my time in eve so much i had to stop trading as an income source. My time outside of eve is more flexible. Basically I am searching for a way to make isk outside of eve. Auditing while time intensive is something i can do. I have no need to ask for much but the fees would be a nice addition for my wallet :) There are several things that need to be considered in my opinion before I could do autdits. Audit of me personaly as I am not well known on MD. The audit should serve the purpose of validating several things: My knowledge of most aspects of running a business in eve. Should reveal what area's I am active in at this moment. Suggestion from my part is not to let me audit those offerings that are active in the same area. I am willing to pay for the audit myself though my budget at this time for the audit is modest as most of my capital is not liquid. My knowledge of auditing is moderate. I would classify myself as a junior in this area with regards to experience. RAW23 has offered to get me in contact with someone who could provide me with more insight and knowledge. Some information about myself. I got dragged into Eve by colleagues of mine in 2008. Focus for me has always been PVP. That said the trading and manufacturing sides of eve have been attracting me more and more since 2009. In 2009 I have done some minor manufacturing and research but quit these activities as they where not really my cup of tea and brought no satisfaction. I started station trading in 2010 with mixed succes in the beginning and more succes later on. With the arrival of my second kid I had to quit these activities. Char for this purpose: Transport Sheep Ipo size and fee 0 - 5B 200M fee 5 - 10B 300M fee 10 - 20B 500M fee For sizes above 20B I feel I am not yet qualified to provide audits. Additional fee for auditing corporations: 100M (added complexity)
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.14 13:01:00 - [2] Originally by: Kalrand You've made 9 posts, and this is your first one in MD. Are you serious? Yes quite serious. I have been following MD since june/juli 2009. Never saw much need to post though. Most of the time there where sensible reactions already or the thread had already degenerated into flaming. I am sure there are quite a few people following MD who never post.
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.14 15:52:00 - [3] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Before stating fees imho you should present yourself a bit more, explain why someone to spend 200M+ on an audit (read: not small things) would trust you with their info. You could explain what do you know about accounting as well. Some little questions to get started: - If you got asked to audit a venture requiring a POS, what would you do? (I have other lil questions but I'll keep em for myself for now). - You discover a 2009 auditee has a 70M SP alt. What now? - A 0.0 guy with no forum history got a 10B NAV. He says he mined and sold stuff for that. He wants to start a trading bond of 10B. What do you tell him? My knowledge of accounting comes from the time I ran a company in RL. Was a small company but it had all of the administrative pleasures with the added bonus it was an international oriented business. :) My current job (Project manager) in RL is not directly involved with company finances but more with risk management and project finances. POS venture: Is the venture run by a corp? Determination of risk and if the assets can be counted towards the value of the company. What is the purpose of the POS? Determination of the risk the pos poses in the venture. E.g if the pos is blown up will that impact the performance of the venture in a significant way. Who has access to the assets in the corp including the pos and potentially blueprints that are used in manufacturing etc. If the assets are taken down by someone what would be the impact on the venture. Above questions will also determine if the assets can be counted towards the nav. Security of the space the pos is located in. Wardecs and the ability of the corp to withstand them. Plenty more questions when a pos is involved mostly to do with determination of the risk the POS poses on the profitability of the venture. 2009 auditee with a 70M sp alt. Question the auditee about the origin of the char. Is it bought, if so when (check on the forum). What is the history of the alt. (used in scamming for example before or after aquiring the char) Is the value of the char in relation with the nav of the auditee if the char was bought. Question auditee about the motivation of running the ipo from a different toon. Make mention of the char in the report and add the char to the nav of the auditee. 0.0 miner turning trader. Tell the guy that he does not stand a good chance of getting his ipo filled with all the risk involved if he ever plans another ipo. Otherwise its not up to me to decide what he wants to do. If still wants to get an audit done then the following: Question the auditee about his experience of trading and try and get said experience verified. Question auditee in regards to wanting to start a bond instead of using his own capital. Question the auditee about the type of trading. Moving stuff to 0.0 has other risk than station trading. Make note of the size of the ipo in relation to the nav of the guy.
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.14 15:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 14/02/2011 15:51:51 (2) Ask whether the POS is meant to be located in high-sec/low-sec/0.0/wh space. Nothing else. Checking the POS setup is imo not the auditor's job, standings can be bought, POS gunners usually won't be able to save the day anyways and Anchoring I can be trained within 20 minutes whenever he should need it. If the POS is shared with other corporation members I won't have any influence on whether he keeps strict security settings for the life of his business venture or not, so asking about access roles etc. is pointless. I do not agree. What happens with the pos and who has access to it determine the risk of the venture if the pos is an important link in the venture. Putting forth questions about risk is also a good way for the auditee to think about the risks he/she runs. There are many many people who just go ahead and do things without thinking about the risk or qoncequences. Part of the job of the auditor is determine how much the auditee has though about these aspects of running a business.
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.14 16:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Cyaxares II Edited by: Cyaxares II on 14/02/2011 16:06:45 Originally by: Transport Sheep What happens with the pos and who has access to it determine the risk of the venture if the pos is an important link in the venture. but this component of risk might change as soon as your audit report is completed. If you comment on past wallet transactions, your comment will always remain valid - no matter what happens in the future. If you comment on a POS setup you have to be extremely careful to explain that your comment is not even guaranteed to be correct at the time the possible investor reads your audit report. An audit is a snapshot of that moment. Its not a way to determine what the investor is going to do. If the auditee needs the pos for the venture its good to know how much risk the pos is going to be in the venture. Pos setup does not come into that at all. Originally by: Cyaxares II Quote: Putting forth questions about risk is also a good way for the auditee to think about the risks he/she runs. That's the job of a business consultant and I generally would be more happy if auditors wouldn't do consulting work for the ventures they should audit. Quote: Part of the job of the auditor is determine how much the auditee has though about these aspects of running a business. IMO that's the investors' job. The auditor's job is to make sure that the auditee is not providing false information to the investors. Asking about risks involved is making the person asked the question think about it. No way around this. Consulting though unintentional is a part of auditing in my opinion. I will most definitely not voice my opinion on what the auditee in question wants to do with the pos or any part of any venture Originally by: Cyaxares II But I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion of auditing practices (so i am out of this thread for now). I just was extremely annoyed as VV's "test" questions seemed to be highly influenced by her preference for very fat audits and not related to the skills an auditor has to have (knowledge about the limitations and working of the EVE API are imo much more important than answers the ideological questions she chose to ask). I do not mind really. People asking questions or commenting on them is a good way for me to show what you can expect of me.
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.14 16:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 14/02/2011 16:10:52 Is not that hard to be qualified skill wise to audit people. However... there is little to no reason to trust you with full API keys now is there? I also find the going rates pretty steep: There is no obvious reason why a simple trade fund bond of 20B would be more convoluted to audit, than say a 5B manufacturing IPO. Other than: Have at it! There is indeed no reason to trust me with them. Hence why I will get an audit done on myself. Also I will not audit ventures active in the same areaÆs as I am. Not sure what more I can do about that part. If you have ideaÆs please put them forward. Indeed there is no obvious reason a 5B audit is less complex than a 20B one. Still it is about determining risk for investors and the risk rises with the size of the IPO. Beside that I hope it will even out over time. There will be complex 5B ones and simple 10B ones is my guess. As for the fees. They might be steep for a small IPO but in my opinion if I look at the effort involved not nearly enough.
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.15 09:44:00 - [7] Pricing is indeed a bit of a difficult issue. On one hand you have the size of the bond relative to the size of the IPO. I totaly agree that 200M is a bit steep for any offering below 5B. That is why the audit fund is in place. Audits In my opinion not every offering needs to be audited. ItÆs up to investors to decide if they want to invest regardless. If the fact checking service suffices then by all means do not do an audit. Those offerings though that are not very transparent and unclear as to the ability of the bond to be repaid an audit can be the difference of getting investors or getting flamed to pieces :) Also in my opinion if the person/corp offering the bond has plans for expansion or growing to larger bonds the audit is an investment in clarity and transparency and could make all the difference in getting where they want to go. Obviously the above is also dependent on the quality of the audit and the status of the auditor. I am aware that both will yet have to be seen. Problem with the status quo As it is there is a bit of a chicken and egg situation where the price is too high but the effort involved is not compensated sufficiently to have enough auditors to make up for demand. The fund can remedy part of that. Having more auditors can remedy another part. Pricing So comming back to pricing. For the amount of work 200M is not much. I could make more isk ratting in the time needed to do the audit. The income generated by doing audits is not something that I need to sustain my eve living style :). As I stated in my motivation I have more time outside of eve than inside of eve. As a lot of the work involved can be done outside of eve doing audits suits my situation. I am open to alternatives of pricing as long as there is some compensation towards the effort involved. As Vaerah Vahrokha stated it might be a good idea to provide the first 2 or 3 audits for free. This would give the MD crowd insight in what the quality is of the audits and what can be expected. I have no problems with doing that. The audit on myself will provide transparency regarding me and my activities. If there are more questions that are not covered in an audit I am perfectly willing to provide answers to those questions and support those with evidence where possible. Option I could host a team speak session where people can ask question. If anyone is interested please let me know and ill set a date and time and provide the necessary info.
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.19 16:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Confirming that since the OP, none has been contacted by Transport Sheep about anything I have asked Raw some questions since. Also i have had some contact with Varo Jan about auditing and getting the adit on me done. I have not had contact with Varo Jan in a few days and i am still waiting on his quote for the audit. It is correct i have not contacted you :) Rest assured i will do so. In any case about the auditing profession and maybe about the audit if Varo is occupied to much. Pending the audit i felt it was better to wait.
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.21 13:40:00 - [9] Though the discource is interresting I would like to request you guys to make a new topic to debate the issues of this particular case :)
Transport Sheep Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.21 15:00:00 - [10] It was just a polite way to say: go away! And indeed at the time I did not follow the thread trough. I did look it up when it came up in this thread though :)

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